Goering: Rosenberg, Misc.
Dr Thoma (Counsel for Defendant Alfred Rosenberg): Rosenberg was chief of the Office of Foreign Affairs of the NSDAP until 1940. Did he in this capacity, or otherwise personally, have an influence on Hitler's decisions concerning foreign policy?
Goering: I believe that the Party's Central Department for Foreign Policy after the seizure of power was never once consulted by the Fuehrer on questions of foreign policy. It was established earlier only so that certain questions on foreign policy which arose within the Party could be dealt with centrally. I am not informed in detail about the methods of that office. As far as I know Rosenberg was certainly not consulted on questions of foreign policy after the accession to power.
Dr Thoma: Therefore, you do not know any details as to whether Rosenberg had a certain influence on Hitler in the Norwegian question?
Goering: That I do not know. I stated yesterday what I know concerning the question of Quisling and also of Rosenberg.
Dr Thoma: When you were Prime Minister did Rosenberg become conspicuous to you as advocating the political or police persecution of the Church?
Goering: He could not advocate the persecution of the Church by the police, because he had nothing to do with the police, and I would not have permitted any interference by him.
Dr Thoma: Do you know whether Rosenberg urged you to evacuate the Jews to Lublin, among other places?
Goering: Rosenberg did not speak to me about that.
Dr Thoma: Did Hitler express to you his satisfaction that Rosenberg had not raised any objection to the Non-Aggression Pact with the Soviet Union, concluded at that time?
Goering: One cannot exactly say that Hitler expressed his satisfaction. If Rosenberg had raised any objection, Hitler would probably have expressed his dissatisfaction in a very unmistakable manner; but he did state that Rosenberg, too, had apparently understood this political step.
Dr Thoma: Did Rosenberg, as Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories, have any influence on the allocation of labor? Was he in a specific position to prevent the employment of the eastern peoples?
Goering: A certain co-operation with regard to the employment program must have existed between the offices of Rosenberg and [Fritz] Sauckel, but certainly not in the sense that Rosenberg could have prohibited the recruiting of eastern workers in contradiction to the Fuehrer's order.
Dr Thoma: It is known to you that Rosenberg repeatedly made representations to the Fuehrer on behalf of a cultural betterment of the eastern European peoples, especially the Ukrainians?
Goering: I was present once when Rosenberg spoke about the varying treatment of the Occupied Eastern Territories, of the peoples living there, and their cultural care. As far as I can recall--or better said--I especially recall that the conversation dealt with the establishment or the continuation of a university in Kiev. The Fuehrer agreed with him in his presence, I believe, but when he had gone, the Fuehrer said to me: "That man, too, has his particular worries. We have more important things to take care of now than universities in Kiev." That I do remember . . . .
Goering: I believe there can be no doubt about that.
Mr. Justice Jackson: And the same is true of Goebbels?
Goering: Goebbels, I have no doubt about that, for I heard from someone whom I trust completely, that he saw Goebbels dead.
Mr. Justice Jackson: And you have no doubt of the death of Himmler, have you?
Goering: I am not certain of that, but I think that you must be certain, since you know much more about it than I, as he died a prisoner of yours. I was not there.
Mr. Justice Jackson: You have no doubt of the death of Heydrich, have you?
Goering: I am absolutely certain about that.
Mr. Justice Jackson: And probably of Bormann?
Mr. Justice Jackson: And those are the chief persons in your testimony, who have been mentioned as being responsible--Hitler for everything, Goebbels for inciting riots against the Jews, Himmler, who deceived Hitler, and Bormann, who misled him about his will?
Goering: The influence exerted on the Fuehrer varied at different times. The chief influence on the Fuehrer, at least up till the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942, if one can speak of influence at all, was exerted by me. From then until 1943 my influence gradually decreased, after which it rapidly dwindled. All in all, I do not believe anyone had anything like the influence on the Fuehrer that I had. Next to me, or apart from me, if one can speak of influence at all, Goebbels, with whom the Fuehrer was together quite a good deal, exerted an influence in a certain direction from the very beginning. This influence wavered for a time and was very slight, and then increased greatly in the last years of the war.
Before the seizure of power and during the years immediately following the seizure of power, [Rudolf] Hess had a certain influence, but only in regard to his special sphere. Then, in the course of the years, Himmler's influence increased. From the end of 1944 on this influence decreased rapidly. The most decisive influence on the Fuehrer during the war, and especially from about 1942--after Hess went out in 1941 and a year had elapsed--was exerted by Herr Bormann. The latter had, at the end, a disastrously strong influence. That was possible only because the Fuehrer was filled with profound mistrust after 20 July, and because Bormann was with him constantly and reported on and described to him all matters. Broadly speaking these are the persons who had influence at one time or another.
The Nuremberg Tribunal Biographies
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